Saturday, April 13, 2019
Journal of 9/11 Studies 47 August 2006/Volume 2 118 Witnesses: The Firefighters’ Testimony to Explosions in the Twin Towers Graeme MacQueen August 21, 2006
Journal of 9/11
Studies
48 August
2006/Volume 2
Initially, the city of New York refused to release this
material, but after a lawsuit by the New York Times and some of the 9/11
victims’ families the city was ordered to release them. The New York Times then
posted them on its internet site, where they have been available (with some
deletions) to the public since
August, 2005.[3] As
we learn from the oral histories themselves, the interviews took place in
various FDNY offices and were conducted by a variety of FDNY officers.
Sometimes only the interviewer and the interviewee were present, while at other
times additional persons were present. Locations, dates, times, and names of
those present are all meticulously recorded. It is impossible to tell simply by
reading the recorded interviews if the atmosphere in which the interviews were
conducted was coercive in any way, but I have found no evidence of this. In
many cases the interviewer simply asks the interviewee to recount what he or
she experienced on 9/11. Thereafter, some interviewers intervene frequently
with questions, while others are largely silent. Interventions typically seek
to establish details of times and locations, of the actions of various chiefs
and firefighters, and of the progress of operations. Interviewers usually do
not show any special interest in the topics central to my concerns—the
collapses of the Towers and the use or non-use of explosions in these
collapses--but their curiosity and attention are sometimes crucial to the
eliciting of critical information.[4] There are very few cases where the
interviewer may be said to have “led” the witness toward the explosion
option.[5] Most interviewees appear to have given their testimony
spontaneously, although some obviously read from a report they had written.[6]
For the most part, interviewees appear to have been given the opportunity to
structure their narratives as they wished. As we know, the New York
firefighters were used by the U.S. government after 9/11 as symbols of heroism,
but there are in this collection very few heroic narratives. Many accounts are
actually structured as anti-heroic
Journal of 9/11 Studies 92 August 2006/Volume 2 After hearing this and looking up and seeing the building, what I thought was an explosion, everyone was running... [pp. 4-5] *** Janice Olszewski, 9110193 South Tower: I didn’t think it was safe. I didn’t know what was going on. I thought more could be happening down there. I didn’t know if it was an explosion. I didn’t know it was collapse at that point. I thought it was an explosion or secondary device, a bomb, the jet-plane exploding, whatever. [p. 7] *** Patricia Ondrovic, 9110048 South Tower: My partner and I grabbed our stretcher, went to put it in the back of our vehicle, and at that time, I think it was the lobby of the building behind us blew out. Everybody started running, I didn't see him again that day. He got thrown one way, I got thrown the other way. ...I was still on Vesey, cause the building that blew up on me was on Vesey. ...There was no where safe to go...I thought that they blew up our triage sector...The paramedic from Cabrini, that's where he was. I was just talking to him 20 minutes before everything blew up. [pp. 4-7] ... At that point I got really upset. I said, do you realize they just blew up our triage sector? Everybody back there is dead, everybody back there is gone. [p. 9] *** Joseph Patriciello, 9110378 South Tower: ...I happened to be looking up and saw the explosion or the building fail with the ensuing fireball and cloud. It didn't appear to me at that moment the building was coming down. But when the noise level began to pick up, it was obvious that something wrong was going on. We all proceeded to run... [p. 4] Journal of 9/11 Studies 93 August 2006/Volume 2 *** Joseph Petrassi, 9110449 North Tower: We came out of the building and we were looking up and the tower seemed to blow out...You could the feel the stuff hitting you on the back as you were running. [p. 3] *** Thomas Piambino, 9110493 South Tower: The south tower had fallen, but at that time I didn't know what it was. All I heard was a tremendous explosion. The tower I was in shook really bad. [p. 5] North Tower: ...and then the north tower started to fall, and my perception was that when I looked back at the tower as it was starting to come down -- I was booking -- was that there was -- I thought it exploded, and I didn't realize it had collapsed. It looked to me like an explosion...I wound up taking refuge behind an ESU truck, I believe it was, a Police Department ESU truck, I think, and I just rode it out until first there was the explosion or the concussion, and then there was very, very strong wind, and then there was the black... [pp. 9-10] *** John Picarello, 9110240 South Tower: In about a second or two, you just heard like a ba-ba-ba-boom, and everything just came down and everything was pitch-black. [p. 6] *** Richard Picciotto, 9110211 South Tower: [As heard from inside the NT.] ...drop your tools, drop your masks, drop everything, get out, get out, get out. My thinking was either--I thought a bomb hit the other building and brought it down, and if there’s a bomb in that one, there’s a bomb in this one. [p. 6] Journal of 9/11 Studies 94 August 2006/Volume 2 *** Kevin Quinn, 9110339 South Tower: Looking up at the towers and it looked like it just basically imploded. [p. 2] *** Joseph Rae, 9110294 South Tower: We started walking north to just about the second footbridge, which would be 6 World Trade, and all of a sudden we heard the explosion and the building started to come down and I ran... [p. 3] *** Gerard Reilly, 9110435 South Tower: So we probably were in the building maybe a minute in the lobby of the tower, whichever one we were in, and that's when it came down. But I thought it was an explosion in the hotel, because all the debris came down, it was pitch-black, the whole building shook. [p. 4] ... I told him I thought it was a bomb in the hotel, because nobody said the building collapsed. [p. 5] *** William Reynolds, 9110288 South Tower: After a while, and I don't know how long it was, I was distracted by a large explosion from the south tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out a couple of hundred feet in each direction, then all of a sudden the top of the tower started coming down in a pancake... [p. 3] ... Q. Bill, just one question. The fire that you saw, where was the fire? Like up at the upper levels where it started collapsing? Journal of 9/11 Studies 95 August 2006/Volume 2 A. It appeared somewhere below that. Maybe twenty floors below the impact area of the plane. [p. 4] ... Q. You're talking about the north tower now; right? A. Before the north tower fell. He said,’No.’ I said, ‘Why not? They blew up the other one.’ I thought they blew it up with a bomb. I said, ‘If they blew up the one, you know they're gonna blow up the other one.’ [p. 8] *** Patrick Richiusa, 9110305 North Tower: ...then it was dead silent. There was no noise after 1 Trade Center fell. It was like something out of a movie. It was really loud and then it was -- maybe it was just my hearing from the blast. [p. 10] *** Juan Rios, 9119937 South Tower: ...I was hooking up the regulator to the O-2, when I hear people screaming and a loud explosion...So I just started to run... [p. 3] *** Angel Rivera, 9110489 South Tower: [The collapse is experienced from inside the Marriott hotel.] ...when we hit the 19th floor, something horrendous happened. It was like a bomb went off. We thought we were dead. The whole building shook. The brick coming out of -- the door to the hallway into the hotel blew off like somebody had thrown it all over the place. It shook all over the place. We were thrown on the floor...The building was still shaking and we're still hearing explosions going on everywhere, so we decided let's get out of here. [pp. 4-5] North Tower: [Again from inside the Marriott.] Mike Mullan walked one flight up, and then the most horrendous thing happened. That's when hell came down. It was like a huge, enormous explosion. I still can hear it. Journal of 9/11 Studies 96 August 2006/Volume 2 Everything shook. Everything went black. The wind rushed, very slowly [sound], all the dust, all the -- and everything went dark. We were rolling all over the floor, banging against the walls... [p. 7] ... When the second tower came down, we had no idea what was going on. We thought another plane, another bomb, another as a second device. [p. 9] *** Daniel Rivera, 9110035 South Tower: [This witness is very close to ST when it collapses.] Then that’s when I kept on walking close to the south tower and that’s when that building collapsed. Q. How did you know that it was coming down? A. That noise. It was a noise. Q. What did you hear? What did you see? A. It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was--do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear ‘pop, pop, pop, pop, pop’? That’s exactly what--because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that’s when I saw the building coming down. [p. 9] *** Terence Rivera, 9110343 South Tower: As I run towards it, I know that I'm not going to escape the -- escape it, so I dive under -- I don't know even know which rig it was. I dive under a rig. At the same time it felt like an explosion. I got bounced around underneath the rig. [p. 7] *** Kenneth Rogers, 9110290 South Tower: ...we were standing there with about five companies and we were just waiting for our assignment and then there was an explosion in the south tower, which according to this map, this exposure just blew out in flames. A lot of guys left at that point. I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. [pp. 3-4] Journal of 9/11 Studies 97 August 2006/Volume 2 *** John Rothmund, 9110112 South Tower: At that time we were looking at the top of the towers and all the rubble and people coming off, and all of a sudden you heard -- it sounded like another airplane, or a missile. It was like a slow shake. The whole ground just vibrated and shook. [pp. 5-6] North Tower: Again, we didn't know what was going on. We thought it was a bomb, you know, like planes were dropping from the sky or missiles were hitting. We didn't know what the hell was going on. [p. 14] *** William Ryan, 9110117 [Seems to be after both collapses.] Q. What did you think you were responding to at that point? A. Well, we knew we had fire. We knew we had partial collapse. Q. From an explosion or -- A. Yes. Well, we heard a loud boom when we were getting ready to dock the ferry. Probably the jet fuel igniting, I assume. [p. 3] *** Stanley Rybak, 9110263 South Tower: ...then the -- then everything just came right through. The dust and the explosion knocked the windows out, and so I was momentarily on the ground. [p. 5] *** Anthony Salerno, 9110309 North Tower: Journal of 9/11 Studies 98 August 2006/Volume 2 Putting out all those fires, in that interim, the second building had come down. I remember hearing a lot of explosions, the street turning completely gray, gray clouds of smoke all over the place. Everybody had stopped what they were doing and ran back up the block. [p. 4] *** Patrick Scaringello, 9110030 South Tower: I started to treat patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above. I looked up, I saw smoke and flame and then I saw the top tower tilt, start to twist and lean. [p. 4] North Tower: I was assisting in pulling more people out from debris, when I heard the second tower explode. [p. 5] *** Howie Scott, 9110365 South Tower: We just made our turn to go in towards the lobby of tower two. For whatever reason, I just happened to look up and saw the whole thing coming down, pancaking down, and the explosion, blowing out about halfway up. [p. 6] *** Edward Sheehey, 9110226 South Tower: We were probably just at West Street, just at the street. Then the south tower -- we heard an explosion, looked up, and the building started to collapse. [p. 3] *** William Simon, 9110115 North Tower: Then we hear a rumble, and we see a blast of smoke and a slight ball of flame coming out from the silhouette of the building, and we watched the antenna collapse into the building. [p. 9] Journal of 9/11 Studies 99 August 2006/Volume 2 *** Richard Skillington, 9110279 North Tower: I looked up. I saw a helicopter, and I was trying to figure out what he was doing. Then the second tower exploded and started coming down. [p. 4] *** Richard Smiouskas, 9110210 South Tower: All of a sudden there was this groaning sound like a roar, grrrr. The ground started to shake....It looked like an earthquake. The ground was shaking. I fell to the floor. My camera bag opened up. The cameras went skidding across the floor. The windows started exploding in. [pp. 8-9] ... ...I didn't know exactly what was going on outside. I'm thinking maybe the building snapped in half. I'm thinking maybe a bomb blew up. I'm thinking it could have been a nuclear. [p. 9] *** Thomas Spina, 9110445 South Tower: I don't know what time later a loud rumble -- it sounded like an explosion. We thought it was a bomb... and number two tower comes down... [p. 9] *** Mark Steffens, 9110003 South Tower: We got to maybe one block north of where the Battery Tunnel exits onto West Street there, and then, boom, a massive explosion. Right in front of us we saw what looked like a fireball and smoke. It was rolling this way. [p. 5] North Tower: Journal of 9/11 Studies 100 August 2006/Volume 2 Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder, papers, flying everywhere. [pp. 6-7] *** John Sudnik, 9110198 South Tower: The best I can remember, we were just operating there, trying to help out and do the best we could. Then we heard a loud explosion or what sounded like a loud explosion and looked up and I saw tower two start coming down. *** Frank Sweeney, 9110113 South Tower: I bent over to pick up the hose, and I hear what sounded like firecrackers and a low rumble. I look up, and the south tower -- I could see the top part of the siding overlapping the bottom side of the siding...I ran... [p. 9] *** Jay Swithers, 9110172 South Tower: I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go. [p. 5] ... So I assumed that the vehicle had not been in the - what I thought was an explosion at the time, but was the first collapse. [p. 9] *** David Timothy, 9110156 North Tower: The next thing I knew, you started hearing more explosions. I guess this is when the second tower started coming down. [p. 12]
Journal of 9/11 Studies 101 August 2006/Volume 2 *** Stanley Trojanowski, 9110292 South Tower: After the collapse of number Two World Trade Center, which I actually thought was a bomb that went off because the north tower was blocking my view, debris and everything started falling, people were running... [p. 3] ... I made my way underneath the scaffolding again and just tried to outlast the collapse, which I thought was just another bomb going off. [p. 4] *** Albert Turi, 9110142 South Tower: The next thing I heard was Pete say what the fuck is this? And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. I later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the air being compressed and that is the floor that let go. [p. 14] *** Thomas Turilli, 9110501 South Tower: [This appears to be at, or just before, the collapse of the ST. They are in the NT and have just sent some men up in the elevator.] The door closed, they went up, and it just seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind... [p. 4] [They get down the stairs.] At that point we were kind of standing on the street and I looked to my left and actually I noticed the tower was down. I didn't even know what it was when we were in there. It just seemed like a huge explosion. [p. 6] Journal of 9/11 Studies 101 August 2006/Volume 2 *** Stanley Trojanowski, 9110292 South Tower: After the collapse of number Two World Trade Center, which I actually thought was a bomb that went off because the north tower was blocking my view, debris and everything started falling, people were running... [p. 3] ... I made my way underneath the scaffolding again and just tried to outlast the collapse, which I thought was just another bomb going off. [p. 4] *** Albert Turi, 9110142 South Tower: The next thing I heard was Pete say what the fuck is this? And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out. I later realized that the building had started to collapse already and this was the air being compressed and that is the floor that let go. [p. 14] *** Thomas Turilli, 9110501 South Tower: [This appears to be at, or just before, the collapse of the ST. They are in the NT and have just sent some men up in the elevator.] The door closed, they went up, and it just seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind... [p. 4] [They get down the stairs.] At that point we were kind of standing on the street and I looked to my left and actually I noticed the tower was down. I didn't even know what it was when we were in there. It just seemed like a huge explosion. [p. 6] Journal of 9/11 Studies 102 August 2006/Volume 2 *** Thomas Vallebuona, 9110418 South Tower: ...I heard ‘boom’, an exploding sound, a real loud bang. I looked up, and I could see the Trade Center starting to come down, the south tower, which I guess I was about a block away from. [p. 5] North Tower: And ‘ba-boom’ again, the same sound, the same noise, the same shuddering, shrilling noise of the metal falling as it cascades down. [p. 9] *** Stephen Viola, 9110439 South Tower: [Collapse experienced from inside NT.] Our guy went in with 13 truck, and he was coming down with the guy from 13 truck to bring the elevator to us, and when he was either going up or coming down the elevator, that's when the south tower collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions. You heard like loud booms, but I guess it was all just stuff coming down... [p. 3] *** William Wall, 9110285 North Tower: At that time we heard an explosion. We looked up and the building was coming down right on top of us... [p. 9] *** James Walsh, 9110459 North Tower: The building didn’t fall the way you would think tall buildings would fall. Pretty much it looked like it imploded on itself. [p. 10] Journal of 9/11 Studies 103 August 2006/Volume 2 *** William Walsh, 9110442 North Tower: I just remembered seeing two floors of heavy fire from the north side of World Trade Center one and the West side of World Trade Center one. All of a sudden things collapsed one Floor, and then within a second or so it just imploded. [p. 28] *** Charles Wells, 9110163 South Tower: We got to the point of being in between the Vista Hotel and the World Trade Center, at which point we heard a -- we felt a loud -- a very strong vibration, shaking, and a loud noise like a subway train coming through a station at speed, like a jet engine at full throttle. It was a roaring sound... [p. 6] [After digging himself out of the collapse rubble.] Everybody's heads were all popping up now. Everybody is digging out, so I ran into a couple of firefighters and I said, "Well, you know, what the hell happened?" Some kind of an explosion, he goes, and that's what I thought it was... [p. 8] *** Daniel Williams, 9110289 South Tower: I turned my face back towards the buildings as -- looking up at the south tower. It seemed like the one floor exploded, but in retrospect I'm thinking that was the compressive force of the building coming down that blew it out. I remember yelling, "Run." [p. 4] *** Journal of 9/11 Studies 104 August 2006/Volume 2 APPENDIX C: NON-EXPLOSION CASES BY CATEGORY: TEXT AND CONTEXT: 10 CASES 1.DENIAL OF EXPLOSION: 2 CASES James Murphy, 9110323 South Tower: [This is the sound as heard from around the ground floor of the NT.] I was looking down towards West Street, because that's where it seemed that it was coming from. You just heard -- I thought it was a third plane that hit, because when we were going in there was a couple of cops. When we made the right onto Liberty, they said, "Be careful, guys, there's a third plane heading in." So that's what I thought it was. It just seemed like a long time that it was -- it didn't seem like an explosion. It was like boom, boom, and then just got louder and louder. It got louder and louder, and then all of a sudden I was looking out onto West Street and the whole area turned from gray to black in a hurry. *** Glen Rohan, 9110404 North Tower: We got approximately to Vesey, a little further past Vesey, I would say about 200 feet from the tower, when we heard a noise. I wouldn't even call it an explosion, but it was enough to make you look up. When we looked up, you could see things coming off the sides of the building of what was then number One World Trade Center. We looked at it for probably about five seconds before I realized that this building is coming down. 2.PANCAKING (TERM): 7 CASES Craig Dunne, 9110490 North Tower: I believe we were there maybe two minutes, two and a half minutes. We heard the rumble, looked up, and the antenna started leaning and the whole building started pancaking towards us, coming down. *** Dennis Fischer, 9110402 North Tower: Journal of 9/11 Studies 105 August 2006/Volume 2 ...we heard the rumbling. We looked up, that I remember as plain as day. I looked up and I saw from the top, I actually watched it with my own eyes, I saw the top start to pancake down. I remember looking at the proby I was with. We looked at each other in amazement. The time seemed to like stand still for a second. We looked at each other. We looked back up. We looked back at each other. It seemed like a bunch of time went by. It was probably like a fraction of a second. Everybody started just running the other way. *** Sammuel Harris, 9110108 South Tower: As I related back to Chief Gombo – or I was getting ready to walk out and tell Chief Gombo what I was told, that's when tower one started to pancake and collapse. The only thing that I remember was the guy in front of me who was standing there in awe of just the earthquake feel, for myself as well. *** Scott Holowach, 9110114 South Tower: Shortly after that, sure enough, I heard – I don't know even -- I guess a rumbling sound. I looked up and I see the whole 70th floor basically like buckle out and start crumbling down the outside of the building. At the time I grabbed two other guys and said let's get the hell out of here. We dove into the building and after the rumbling stopped -- Q. Would have been south tower collapsing? A. The south tower. Q. You could see it from your position? A. Yes. I visually watched the 70 floor. It looked like almost it was buckling outwards and then it just went down the outside of the building, just like scaled the outside of the building and it just started pancaking... *** Robert Salvador, 9110474 North Tower: ...and then the north tower started coming down. I heard the same -- same pancaking, like a machine gun coming and glass flying, so I closed -- shut the door, got out of the rig, and ran -- started running across the street. Journal of 9/11 Studies 106 August 2006/Volume 2 *** Tiernach Cassidy, 9110413 North Tower: We start walking down Cortlandt Street from Broadway, going west, and we’re carrying the stokes basket, myself and the team I was with, the other four guys. We started hearing the pancaking of the north tower now. I looked at the officer I was with. We both looked at each other like what’s that? Not thinking the second one would be coming down. Q. What did it sound like? A. It sounded like a plane just getting ready to land, just getting closer, coming in; a bowling ball getting closer when it’s ready to hit that sweet spot, you know. But it didn’t take us long to realize what it was. We didn’t look up. We just ran ... *** Rosario Terranova, 9110168 South Tower: While we were discussing this, I remember hearing Chief Ganci say, "Oh, shit," you know, so we all looked up, and you could hear this rumble coming. We looked up at the south tower, which is the No. 2 tower, and all of a sudden we began to see like a pancake. I mean, it's as simple as that. If you could imagine you had two cards in your hand, and you just clapped your hands, and they just closed on each other. That's what it looked like, like a toy, and we began to see the pancake, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, one floor after another, as quick as you can imagine it. 3.PANCAKING (DESCRIPTION): 1 CASE Luis Sanchez, 9110128 South Tower: Five minutes later I just heard this loud noise. It was like an earthquake. It was shaking, and things was going down. I looked everywhere. There was nothing going on. I looked to the side, looked to my friend. There was nothing going on. When I looked up, I saw the top of the building floor by floor was coming down, collapsing. I was oh. (Inaudible.)
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