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An American Affidavit

Wednesday, January 6, 2016

Interview with a dead Orson Welles by Jon Rappoport

Interview with a dead Orson Welles
~revised and updated~
by Jon Rappoport
January 5, 2016
(To read about Jon's mega-collection, Power Outside The Matrix, click here.)
Someone somewhere will surely think this is "channeling," so allow me to set the record straight. It isn't.  It's fiction.  However, as well all know, fiction often makes more sense than fact.  Enough said on that point. 

In this interview with Orson Welles, we consider matters he's been keeping bottled up for a long time, ever since Hollywood more or less cast him aside. For some reason, he seems to agree with my views on many points.

Q (Rappoport): You're a comedian.  Would you agree?

A (Welles): Of course.  That's not all I am, but yes.  Comedy has effervescence.  It spills over the sides of the container.  The container is "things as they are."  When you keep pouring new material into it and let it flood over the sides, you're going to run into laughter, eventually.

Q: The container itself is a joke.

A: It's a joke that can kill you, but sure.  When you've been around theater as long as I have, you understand that the whole construction called ordinary reality is just another piece of theater---except it's posing as the only show in town.  That's the joke.

Q: How old were you when you figured this out?

A: I think I've always known it.  People take on roles and they act them out.

Q: Why?

A: That's a hell of a question.  I guess it's because they don't see an alternative.  There is a psychological fixation on One.  One role, one idea, one answer, one ultimate objective, one cure, one ending.  It represents a hunger for limits.  I never liked that.

Q: You never like to come to the end of things.

A:  No.  My endings were usually tricks.  You know, a way of arriving at the conclusion of a story.  But actually, I could have gone on forever.  I could have extended every movie I ever made out to infinity.  Why not?  It's more interesting.  You just keep inventing.

Q: So reality is infinite?

A: It could be.  There's no rule against it.  This is another aspect of comedy.  At some point, as you keep extending things, it's funny.  Your characters, in a movie, break out of their confines.  The seams split.  You can make that serious and horrible, but if you keep going long enough, it turns into comedy.  Because the roles disintegrate.  The limits crack.  You're in new spaces.  Freedom takes over.

Q: Immortality.

A: Well, yes.  I mean, I'm dead, but I'm not.  Death is just one way of ending the story, but you don't have to tell or live a story that way.  You just go on.  You move on.

Q: In your later years, you gained an enormous amount of weight.

A: That was the result of boredom.  And the boredom came out of the fact that I wasn't ingenious enough to assemble everything I needed to make the films I really wanted to make.  You see, after Citizen Kane, which I made in my 20s, I saw where it could all go.  I saw I could make movies that no one had ever thought of.  This may sound odd, but Kane was really a movie about making movies.  That's what I discovered.  On a higher level, let's say, it was a movie about shadows and light and camera angles and the emotion coming out of characters on the screen, all rolled up into moving paintings.  It was quite beautiful to me.  I was struck by it.  I loved it.  I wanted to take off from there and fly into the wild blue yonder.  The possibilities were endless.

Q: You had the energy---

A: You have no idea.  It was titanic.  It was radiating out of every cell in my body.     

Q: So you make Citizen Kane and you're 24 years old.

A: It was a gargantuan act of ego.

Q: That's why it's endured.

A: Yes, I would say so.

Q: So in your case, it's beneficent ego.

A: Well, not all the time. I once threw a man off a bridge.

Q: That's a new one.

A: He attacked me. He said The Magnificent Ambersons was a drawing-room drama.

Q: Did he die?

A: Oh no. The bridge was four feet above a narrow river. They fished him out and we all went and had a drink. People have the wrong idea about ego. Big is not a problem. Small is the problem. And if you stay in the middle ground, you experience the worst case. Then you're torn to pieces. Attrition and gnawing from all quarters. Beyond a certain point, more ego is a balloon and you float up off the ground. If you can hold on and allow the ride, you develop spontaneous resources.

Q: Ego is a medium, like paint or film.

A: You can use it if you want to.

Q: But people then assume art means humility.

A: People assume God is waiting for them in a city built on clouds, where they'll melt like butter into a piece of cosmic toast. Humility is a delusion. An ideal of sheer pretension. It's an amateur's role in a doomed play.

Q: Ego as a social behavior is buffoonery.

A: That's why Citizen Kane is a comedy.

Q: And the reason why it's not seen as that?

A: Large looming sets, and camera angles slanted upward from low positions. You can have a gloomy comedy. I may have invented the form.

Q: Touch of Evil---they say, every frame is a galvanizing photograph.

A: Why else make a movie? I was like the poet who realizes language is the flight from the ground into the air, or the descent below the surface. In film, you build the architecture to photograph it, and you choose the angles that make the photo. Frankly, if I can't invent every frame so it has original architecture, then I'm lazy. I'm letting the extraordinary slip by. I may as well be home getting drunk. But you see, I forced the issue. I didn't sit back and hope. I didn't wait for every marvelous accident. I was up on the beat, and I stayed there. Well, I didn't stall. I hit you with image after image. That was the point.

Q: You were the troll under the bridge.

A: The troll waits for years, for even centuries. But once he starts to move, he doesn't stop.

Q: At what point did you realize the plot of Citizen Kane was a throwaway?

A: Oh, I knew that from the beginning. Stories are everywhere. Grab one. Think of one. Don't give it much concern. One understands, of course, the audience is a sucker for stories, so that's what they'll focus on. You can't help that. But the Rosebud business, the whole career of Kane, his whole life, drawn in episodes---who cares? It's just the occasion for doing what I wanted to do. I never put stock in it. I may have said I did, but that was a lie or a momentary fascination. I wanted big space, so I chose a big man. Stories are a rank addiction. How will things turn out? Who will prove to be the winner? What's the missing clue?  Find the right story that touches all the bases, and you can sell it. But I was destroying stories. Understand? If my films had a theme, that was it. Story disintegrates. It has no foundation.

Q: You're supposed to be obligated to telling a story.

A: Drivel.  Wisdom is supposedly choosing the right story, but that's sheer nonsense. Crap. Every story is a lie. You come to the end of it, and you feel unhappy. I knew that when I was 16. That's why I had a hard time with studio executives. They're sucking on the teat of their own religion. They see themselves as priests. They're selling story to the public. A to B. You begin the fairy tale at A and wind up at B. No switchbacks. No irony.  It's sheer stupidity.  I'm not trying to hide the weapon in the desk drawer until the last scene. I'm injecting invention in every frame, so it spills over the edges. The foam shooting over the rim of the glass. That's what I want. It's the same with any world. You want to bring sheer abundance to it. Even in the desert, you have an abundance, an over-abundance of space. That's what I'm aiming for. Over-abundance. On Earth, you have it.  Jungles. They just keep on twisting toward the horizon.  They lean over the banks of the rivers, trying to swallow up the water, and the water won't be stopped, either. You have black jaguars, some of the greatest hunting machines anyone could devise. They're bursting at the seams. Look at their modeling. And lions. And cloudy leopards, pure and sufficient and heartbreaking beauty. You make many types. Let's not diddle around.  The people who made this place, Earth, do you think they held back? Do you think they were wearing lab coats and saluting genes? What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?

Q: Joseph Calleia in Touch of Evil.

A: Poor old Joe. He could make that sadness sing.  Abundantly. He was quite good at comedy, you know. But he pulled on the cloak of sadness, and his elevator would take you down three or four levels, and he would die at the bottom. You knew he had to. There was a collection of caricatures in that film. Not exactly caricatures, because I was inventing, how do I say it, a special kind of type. Not a cartoon. Not tripping falling farce. Not quite naturalism. Perhaps a mixture. They call it grim noir, but that was a comedy, too, that film. You had Ray Collins doing his special brand of flapdoodle. The DA. Coat and hat, barking like a dog. One second he's three dimensions, the next second he's flat. And Akim Tamiroff. Farce. But he'll shoot you. Entrances and exits. The characters appear, flare, flatten out, and disappear. Cardboard town. Cardboard and oil. A collapsible universe.

Q: With different rules.

A: Yes, the rules of, say, GK Chesterton. Reality as facade. But in Touch of Evil, if you put your hand through a wall, you feel you might get bit by something on the other side. The characters aren't trapped by their natures. Not really. I trap them. That's part of letting the audience see I'm doing the inventing. They see it going on. Just enough. Same with Citizen Kane.

Q: Reminds me a little of Pablo in Steppenwolf.

A: Yes. He can fold up the bar and the people in it into a toy and put it all in his pocket. He doesn't do it. Maybe once, to drive home a point. But he could. So could I. Obviously, I don't. But the fact that I could is part of the overall atmosphere.

Q: Collapsible universe.

A: Magic Theater. It's a decision you make, and the earlier the better. Will you pose yourself in reality and then mingle with it? Is that your main thrust? Or will you punch holes in it and find velocity and manufacture the worlds you want? You might discover one or two cultures in the history of the planet that, at their beginning, opted for the second alternative. Briefly.
Q: This society we live in provides us with snapshots of artists.

A: Caught, for an instant, on the run. So the life of the artist becomes the watchword. His tribulations. The fact that he's a fool in his personal life or he's desperate or he's rich or he's this or that. Maybe 20 years out of his endless trillions of immortal years are captured in a highly suspect snapshot.  But he's somewhere else now, still working. He's exponentially increasing his power. As an incidental effect, his impact on reality, any already-existing reality, is growing. Somewhere out on the rim of a place we've never seen, he's made vanish a few square parsecs of space and invented his own territory to replace it.

Q: Maybe he's casting a film.

A: Casting comes last. He's drawing up camera angles, building sets.

Q: Huge houses?

A: Maybe. Maybe pillars and towers and looming sky. Maybe a cardboard town sinking in leftover oil. If it's Tuesday, it's one, if it's Wednesday, the other.

Q: Just out of curiosity-everything you're saying here, did you know it at the time or only now?

A: Oh, I knew it all along.  The individual is immortal.  But people want to hear about other things. And I was willing to give them what they wanted, except in my work. In intelligence operations, why would you blow your cover stories? The world of humans is built on cover stories, one after another, in stratified layers.

Q: The Third Man. You and Joseph Cotten.

A: Well, that was all atmosphere. We didn't have anything else. Atmosphere wrapping a mystery. And when it's solved, it's a throwaway, of course. Who cares? But with the crooked streets and lighting and pace, you make your own little temporary religion. An altar sitting somewhere ahead, in the fog.

To read the rest of this interview, click here.
You can find this article and more at NoMoreFakeNews.com.
Jon Rappoport

The author of three explosive collections, THE MATRIX REVEALED, EXIT FROM THE MATRIX, and POWER OUTSIDE THE MATRIX, Jon was a candidate for a US Congressional seat in the 29th District of California. He maintains a consulting practice for private clients, the purpose of which is the expansion of personal creative power. Nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, he has worked as an investigative reporter for 30 years, writing articles on politics, medicine, and health for CBS Healthwatch, LA Weekly, Spin Magazine, Stern, and other newspapers and magazines in the US and Europe. Jon has delivered lectures and seminars on global politics, health, logic, and creative power to audiences around the world.
Use this link to order Jon's Matrix Collections.

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