The End of Journalism in Ukraine: A Feature Interview with Anatoly Sharij
Global Research News Hour Episode 103
“And right now and
I’m ready to support my words, and i take full responsibility for my
words they (government) have recreated (the great purges of) 1937,
perhaps even the worst version of it.” -Anatoly Sharij (from this interview)
LISTEN TO THE SHOW
Length (59:16)
A chill has settled over journalists living and working in Ukraine.
As reported by Amnesty International,
a number of journalists in the country have been facing harrassment
from authorities. Prominent blogger Ruslan Kotsaba for example, was
arrested on February 7 in a town 130 km southeast of Lviv. He was
charged with “high treason” on March 31, and sentenced with up to 15
years in prison. His crime? Posting a video describing the conflict in
the south and east of the country as “the Donbas fratricidal civil war”
and expressing opposition to the military conscription of Ukrainians to
take part in the offensive.
On April 7, the Security
Bureau of Ukraine detained two bloggers with the independent political
site “Voice of Odessa.” One of the women had her personal computer,
telephone and personal belongings seized during the raid. On that same
day, the SBU put out the following statement:
“The security service of Ukraine … has discontinued operation of a number of Internet sites that were used to perpetrate information campaigns of aggression on the part of the Russian Federation aimed at violent change or overthrow of the constitutional order and territorial integrity and inviolability of Ukraine.” [1]
As of this writing, the whereabouts of these two bloggers remain unknown.
And there are the suspicious deaths.
In March, the 45 year
old journalist Oles Buzyna, who was thought to have “pro-Russian” views,
had stepped down from his position as editor-in-chief with the Segodnya
(“Today”) newspaper. In a blog entry, he explained that his decision
was motivated by what he called “censorship” imposed from on high.
According to the blog post, the editorial position of the paper had been
reset so that the new Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk was effectively
immune from criticism.
One month after leaving his position with the paper and posting that blog entry, Buzyna was gunned down by masked assailants in the courtyard of his building.
On this week’s Global
Research News Hour, we examine the threats facing working journalists in
today’s Ukraine with the assistance of a provocative and popular
blogger named Anatoly Sharij.
Anatoly Sharij had been
forced to flee the country in 2012 after facing trumped up charges. He
had been granted refugee status in EU. While not exactly a “pro-Russian”
journalist he has been very effective using videos to highlight the
deceptions and lies appearing in the Ukrainian news media. As a result
he has been receiving death threats. His website is sharij.net.
The transcript for this interview, conducted with the assistance of Winnipeg-based Konstantin Goulich, appears below.
The interview is
followed by an excerpt of a speech given at last March’s US-Russia forum
in Washington by American journalist Robert Parry. As a reporter in the
1980s he helped expose the Iran-Contra scandal for the Associated
Press. He now works with the independent news site Consortium News. In this talk, Parry comments on the unprecedented ‘groupthink’ that seems to pervade the US media when it comes to the Ukraine conflict.
LISTEN TO THE SHOW
Length (59:16)
Interview with Anatoly Sharij
Anatoly Sharij
is a prominent video-blogger, journalist and media expert from Ukraine
presently exiled in EU. Anatoly is a prominent critic of the current
state of journalism in Ukraine. He made a name for himself by exposing
fakes and propaganda in Ukrainian and Russian media. Anatoly is
extremely critical of the atmosphere of terror and intimidation the
current Ukrainian government had created in Ukraine, both for the
journalist community and for the population, with the recent string of
murders and arrests. His work had caused some very public spats with
government officials, and pro-regime media personalities.
Global Research:
Hello, Anatoly Sharij. Welcome to the broadcast. I would like to ask
you some questions. First of all, if you could explain. You are a
journalist, and you’ve worked out of Ukraine. Could you tell us the
circumstances by which you ended up leaving Ukraine?
Anatoly Sharij:
Good afternoon Michael. Indeed I used to be a journalist in Ukraine. In
2011 I`ve had began to have problems with ministry of Internal Affairs.
Why? For what reason? For the reason that I and my colleagues from
Ukrainian TV channel 1+1 who are unfortunately no longer employed by it
we were closing drug selling points, establishments legally selling
synthetic drugs, after using which young people were jumping out of
buildings. And we were closing the illegal casinos.
The problem was that just
like those drug selling points were working under the protection of
Department of Combating Illicit Drug Trafficking so were the casinos
working under the protection of the structures within the Ministry of
Internal Affairs. At first I was warned through then adviser of the
Minister of Internal Affairs, he had warned me to hold my horses (to
slow down ) a bit. Yet we had continued (our work), that’s when the
problems had begun. At first there was a provocation at one of the fast
food restaurants. A person who was later determined to be off staff
employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs had attacked my wife. I was
forced to shoot him (with a trauma pistol – a self defence weapon).
Immediately after that
(incident) I had called the police. Yet, I did not stop and had
continued my work closing down the drug selling points and illegal
casinos. After that my car was shot up. The car was shot at, and a half a
year later I was accused of shooting at my own car. I was under two
court indictments.
There was zero evidence
(presented), but you don’t need evidence in Ukrainian courts. The judge
had refused all attempts at mediation. That’s when, before my final
hearing I had (escaped the country) to the West. Using some other
person’s documents I crossed the border and ended up in European Union
where I asked for refugee status. I had provided all the documents
concerning my criminal cases, documents from all of my court hearings.
And in 2012 I was granted a full refugee status.
GR: So Anatoly, you’re now
based in Lithuania, and my understanding is that there have been efforts
and pressure on the Lithuanian government to have you extradited back
to Ukraine. Is that correct?
AS: No, that’s not the case. In 2013 I
was arrested in Netherland by Interpol under request of Ukrainian
authorities , then ruled by (former president) Yanukovich. Yet
(authorities in) Netherlands after hearing the evidence against me,
while I was under arrest, had determined them to have been falsified. In
essence that was a second country in EU that had determined that case
against me had been fabricated.
Nevertheless, in 2015 a series of
articles against me was published, for which no one had asked for my
comment. This was happening in Lithuania. The series of articles had
appeared that had stated that I was a Putin’s propagandist, that I was
pro-Russian. Which was completely false, and no one had bothered to ask
me for a comment. Furthermore, I had contacted those Lithuanian
journalists, who I refuse to call journalists they are
pseudo-journalists. I’ve contacted them and had offered to provide my
comments, but all of them had refused.
Shortly after, there was an unofficial
request from Ukraine at the level of the Foreign Affairs Ministry, after
which a statement from Lithuanian Deputy Interior Minister had appeared
in the media ,where he had said that my (refugee) status will be
reviewed (reconsidered), not because I had lied when I was applying for
(refugee) status. No! It was because (according to him) the democracy
had been established in Ukraine, and I was under no threat. Even though
I’m still wanted under two criminal cases, and I receive direct physical
threats on a regular basis from representatives of the Ukrainian
government.
The last such threat came from the
Advisor to the Minister of Internal Affairs. In other words they are
either trying to accuse me of terrorism or supporting terrorism, or
funding terrorism.
GR: You say that what you’re being told
is that Ukraine is a peaceful country, but we’re hearing about
incarceration of journalists and even the killing of journalists. For
example Ruslan Kotsaba was arrested February 7th and charged on March 31st
with high treason. He was sentenced for up to 15 years. And his crime
as I understand it was posting a video describing the conflict as
Donbass fratricidal civil war and expressing opposition to a military
conscription of Ukrainians. Then of course, there was a recent killing
outside his home of 45 year old journalist Oleg Buzina. I’m wondering
first of all if you see your case consistent with what is happening
journalist to journalist across the board. And I’m also wondering when
did you (first?) see that apparent suppression of free speech. Where did
it have its origin?
AS: I will voice my own opinion. I
remember how I’ve learned of Oleg Buzina’s murder. I was driving in my
car. When I learned of his murder, it was such a shock for me that I’ve
stopped my car on the side of the road, because I consider… I mean I had
considered him to be my friend. I know that he had never crossed the
line, what I mean is that he had always played by the rules.
The problem with what is happening right
now. The problem of what is happening right now is that the state had
stopped to play by the rules. A person should not be incarcerated under
false allegations. If you don’t like what the person is saying, but he
is not calling for division of the country, not calling for anything
illegal. And Buzina never called for something like that.
I had never in my life said that I
consider Ukraine not to be unitary (united). For example I consider
Crimea to be part of Ukraine. This is my personal opinion, yet I receive
without exaggeration up to a hundred threats a day. A hundred threats a
day in social media. Threats of murder, threats of quartering, threats
that they will find me abroad. The problem is that the West
unfortunately had stopped noticing what happens in Ukraine.
I can understand that the West was
demonstrating its friendship, provided friendly support, but no one
should be covering up for the criminals. It’s unacceptable to turn a
blind eye to the crimes. It’s unacceptable to not notice violations of
human rights. When the Adviser to the Minister of Internal Affairs had
started uttering threats at me, I had contacted Amnesty International,
Human Right Watch and I had not received a reply from either
organisation. Amnesty International had contacted me, they had promised
me to call back, but they never did. I can see what is happening.
Everyone is turning a blind eye.
When illegal procedure of removing my
refugee status was started in Lithuania, which is unacceptable, it’s
illegal to do so. When Deputy Interior Minister had made his statements
to the press, which he had no legal right to do, since the refugee
status of a person in a confidential information, he had violated the
law, it’s a criminal offence. No one had noticed. And nobody is paying
attention right now either. Oles Buzina got murdered, and I’ve read in
western press that he was a pro-Russian journalist. As soon as they put a
label on a person, it becomes OK to kill him. That is the main problem.
The west must open it’s eyes, to what is
happening in Ukraine. Because what is happening is unacceptable, people
are being jailed for 15 years for having an opinion. That is not
normal.
GR: Anatoly, just a couple of notes on
what you just mentioned. Maybe you can explain when did this
intimidation, harassment, killing of journalists start. Did it start
with you, does it go back to February of 2014, with removal of
Yanukovich, but I also wanted to get a little bit more. Because I did
see a report from BBC about journalist Oleg Buzina, and they did mention
that there was a number of these suspicious killings. There was a
report, I can’t remember which agency it was at the moment, which had
talked that Buzina had been killed one month after stepping down from
his newspaper, because he had refused the media censorship that he said
was being imposed on his newspaper from on high. So it seems like this
is an individual who had refused to be, and this is just an
interpretation, kind of a propaganda organ for the state and one month
later he ends up dead. I don’t know if you see that as a coincidence or
if there is a direct connection with his stepping down, or his
outspokenness, or idea that he is just independent minded person. Is
this just an attempt, may be a very brutal fascistic attempt, to shut
down free speech?
AS: I will answer the first part of your
question first. Under the Yanukovich regime if you were a political
journalist you were protected, absolutely protected. What I mean by that
is that the pressure ( by the government) was applied only to the
people ( journalists) who were going after specific personas (official).
I was practising social journalism, and I was going after Ministry of
Internal Affairs, I was going after specific generals. I was publishing
fact based videos. I was publishing videos of soliciting murder that
were recorded using hidden cameras. Those were very specific things
(reports).
“The west must open it’s eyes, to what is happening in Ukraine. Because what is happening is unacceptable, people are being jailed for 15 years for having an opinion. That is not normal.”
Yet, I can’t remember people being
thrown in jail on completely made up charges. Back then they could have
passed it as a criminal case. For example if you did something (they
didn’t like), then they might find you to be in possession of some
drugs, something along those lines.
Right now I can see that people, without
any after thought are saying that they will throw me into jail, because
of things I say. And what do I talk about?What do I do? I expose fakes
produced by Ukrainian media. I’m currently ranked first among Russian
speaking video bloggers. I’ve managed to attain such popularity in a
matter of a year. This is what gets them (Ukrainian Media?) embarrassed.
They had made several attempts to get my Youtube channel closed. It was
completely shut down three times, and I had to get it restored through
my lawyers in the United States.
Then they started to threaten me with
reprisals. As it was the case with threats I had received from members
of Ukrainian parliament Bereza and Philatov, those are not the least
important people in Ukrainian parliament. They, on their Facebook pages,
in front of hundred of thousands of people had threatened me with
murder. That is why the situation had deteriorated. I’m certain that
what had happened was an evolution of pressure aimed at the journalists.
As for Oles Buzina. Indeed he was a
chief editor of “Segodnya”( Today) newspaper. He had tried in that news
paper under his editorial control to publish objective materials. In
other words, today the objective journalism in Ukraine is almost
completely banned. You must either stick to the party line.
Similar to what used to happen in USSR,
there was an official line of Communist Party of the Soviet Union, if
you were to step away from that line you might start to have problems,
or your entire publication may start to have problems. For this reason
the owner had attempted to frame his work, and Oles had left the
newspaper. He was murdered soon after. And if you were to read the
comments of the officials of the Ukrainian government in social media,
you will see that they were saying that: “things are as they should be.”
Furthermore, the car used by the killers
still had the licence plate attached, but they (Ukrainian authorities)
have yet to find the killers. Why? Because, they do not want to find
those killers. They use it as an example for everyone else of what would
happen if someone were to cross that proverbial party line.
And right now and I’m ready to support
my words, and I take full responsibility for my words they (government)
have recreated 1937, (the time of great purges) perhaps even the worst
version of it.
Intermission
GR:Have you noticed those changes since the beginning of February 2014 when the new government came to power?
AS: These changes had started to occur
during the Maidan revolution. During the revolution there were constant
baseless insinuations, accusations, constant fakes, constant propaganda.
And then when new government came into power the pressure (on the
journalists) had steadily started to increase.
GR: Anatoly I’m curious to know about
other players in this whole conflict. I mean there are state forces that
are in league with the current government, but we have a lot of other
figures influencing things. You’ve got organized crime, you’ve got the
oligarchs, you’ve got the Western connections within Ukraine. You’ve got
the Russians, probably having their own connections within Ukraine. I
wondering who all is benefiting from this suppression of press and
freedom of speech, of harassment and intimidation of journalists like
yourself. Is it just state authorities or are their other figures that
can be benefiting from and influencing the situation?
AS: In my opinion, and I’m certain of
it, the people most interested are the central Ukrainian authorities
(government). As you probably know, the power is only strong as long as
everyone keeps their silence. And at the moment it’s beneficial to keep
quiet. Even if you’re aware of some crime committed by, let’s say, those
(territorial or national guard ) battalions in Donbass region, you’re
much better off keeping it to yourself. Because, if you were to go
public, not only would you get noticed by Ukrainian security services.
Alternatively representatives of those battalions may show up and in
worst case murder you.
Similar to what had happened few days
ago when law enforcement officers were gunned down in the centre of
Kiev. Three police officers were gunned down. And that is considering
that I had published three reports in regards to those people who then
went on to murder the officers. So while I was not keeping quiet, the
others were.
What’s worse they were turning them into
heroes! As it turns out it’s more beneficial to keep your silence even
if it may lead to murder or may have some other colossal consequences.
I’m sure that it benefits the Ukrainian authorities. However, I do not
differentiate between Ukrainian government and oligarchs that are
presently in power. The idea behind the revolution was to wrestle
control of the state away from oligarchs. Yet instead we saw governor,
well now ex-governor Kolomojski, owner of channel 1+1, in control of
several of the regions, by the way the complaints launched by that tv
station against my Youtube channel had caused it to be destroyed twice.
And of course all of the outlets, for
journalist community are owned by the oligarchs. All of the TV channels
are owned by the oligarchs. The Fifth Channel is owned by Poroshenko,
STB belongs to Pinchuk. As it turns out all oligarchs own the TV
channels. The only place lay person can find some truth is in the
internet. Yet if he finds Sharij on the internet, that means that Sharij
has to be silenced as well. That is my impression.
GR: Anatoly, I was wondering if you
could tell us a little bit about those journalists who are putting
forward the information and commentaries that are supportive of the
current governing authorities. Could you talk about individuals like
Elena Vasileva, and the extent to which what they are being putting
forward is being embraced not just by people within Ukraine, but by
wider international press. How influential have these figures been?
AS: I’ll start from the end. The degree
of the influence Vasilieva has become obvious to me when the information
she had provided was used in UN Security Council. That is when I
realised how serious things are. I’ve been fighting with that individual
and with fakes that she was disseminating for half a year! I was
exposing her fakes. I was showing that those were lies. She was burying
football teams. She was saying complete gibberish. She was quoting UN
figures that are nowhere to be found in UN reports. Yet, Ukrainian media
were constantly rebroadcasting her fakery.!
So if there was a person to appear who
would be saying complete nonsense, which can be easily fact-checked, as
long as that nonsense is following in line with official position of the
state, that nonsense would be broadcast by mainstream media. There were
people like her before and after. Some people appear all the time that
say things that I refute on my channel. However, Ukrainian channels do
not want to publish corrections.
What’s worse, I can see that the
situation is deteriorating. For example, Facebook status updates of some
anonymous people began to appear on the front pages. The value of the
information had vanished, it had disappeared. What we now see in front
of us are no longer mass media nor journalists, but propagandists who
re-broadcast any nonsense as long as it’s beneficial for the government.
There is no more journalism in Ukraine.
GR: Anatoly, you say that journalism is
dead, but what about other prominent bloggers or some of these
collectives such as anti-maidan.com? Do you see those entities to be
more reliable or beginning to approach actual journalism? Are these
resources that people can rely on?
AS: They are a threat, but I don’t see
them as an alternative. Unfortunately I do not see bloggers from
anti-maidan as an alternative to journalism Because we can see
propaganda on one side, and on the other side we see the other
propaganda. There are just as many fakes on the other side too, but if
from one side we see supposedly pro-Ukrainian propaganda, which in
reality is not pro-Ukrainian but pro-State propaganda, then from the
other side we see very clear pro-Russian propaganda.
“What we now see in front of us are no longer mass media nor journalists, but propagandists who re-broadcast any nonsense as long as it’s beneficial for the government. There is no more journalism in Ukraine.”
I’m not a friend of propagandists. Yes,
the anti-maidan community has respect for me for certain principles I
have. Even though, and let me repeat myself, to me Ukraine is unitary
and Crimea belongs to Ukraine. I cannot use their information as
reliable as, let me repeat myself, it’s also propaganda.
GR: Anatoly what are your thoughts then
about western journalists going in there? I mean Graham Phillips or
George Eliason. People from the west going into Ukraine. Do you feel
anymore respectful of those sorts of individuals. For that matter, are
there any prominent journalists from outside going in Russian or Western
that you feel are somewhat reliable in terms of what they put forward?
AS: About Graham, you see I respect
Graham and when he was detained at the airport I was first to say that
he was in trouble, it’s unfortunate that he had been detained. Thank god
it didn’t happen right now, because I think that today they would not
let him out alive.
Yet when a person starts to openly
express his own opinion in his reports, and his own definitions of this
or that power, whether or not I have favourable opinion of that power, I
consider them to no longer be a pure journalist. For me there is pure
journalism and non-pure journalism. That’s why I do not even call myself
a journalist at the moment, because I often express my personal
opinions on my blog.
Graham deserves respect along with his
European colleagues, even if they have pro-Russian position. He deserves
respect because he is often present at the scene, and he gives
information directly from the scene. If you were to remove his personal
opinions he provides exceptionally valuable information.
Similarly, there are Russian journalists
who work there, who undoubtedly… their information undoubtedly when it
ends up with their news channels, is transformed and is broadcast
without doubt as propaganda, either in light or extreme form. However ,
the importance of that information to me is that it comes directly from
the scene of the event. These people provide exclusive video footage,
and Ukrainian TV channels steal that footage and present it as their
own. And the reason for that is the absence of Ukrainian journalists in
Donbass region on the separatist controlled territory.
GR: Anatoly I wanted to also ask about
Western reporting on this. As I understand you have been approached by
western journalists and they don’t seem to be broadcasting what you
saying, at least that’s what I understand. What is at the heart of
western journalists not being able to reliably relay that kind of
information, because they don’t seem to be under the gun the same way
journalists within Ukraine are. They don’t seem to be subjected to the
same kind of death threats that you’ve been talking about directed
against yourself. What is the motivation for those journalists to may be
sit on those stories that should be reported?
AS: My attitude towards Western
journalists that work in Donbass region is without doubt of complete
respect, if they convey their information not through the prism of
propaganda, but if they provide pure information. As for the Western
mass media as a whole, first of all, I tend to separate mass media into
ones from Old Europe, the US and Canada are a separate category, and
ones from New Europe. For example, I had personal encounter with
journalism from Baltic states. As far as I’m concerned, there is no
journalism in Baltic States either. As they do not follow any
journalistic standards, and often re-broadcast Ukrainian fakes. Western
journalism has its own peculiarities.
For example, we hear a statement by
President Poroshenko where he declares that a Russian armoured column
was destroyed. Almost immediately, all Western radio stations, all
Western TV channels carry this message. However, two days later when I
publicly ask them the question where, at what coordinates was that
column destroyed – I would send my own journalists that work for me to
that spot – no one can give me an answer. Because, that column had never
existed in first place! But Western journalist can’t imagine that a
Head of State would openly lie on the air. Perhaps that is the problem.
I was asked to give an interview from
Netherlands and I gave a very long interview, furthermore I personally
had it translated and sent it to them for their convenience. The
interview was about BUK (missile system suspected of shooting down MH17)
and my impression of what had happened there. I’ve provided my vision
of the events. The interview was never published, after that the
journalist had stopped communicating with me. What I suspect is that
there is some politics involved and the information that should not be
discussed never makes it on the air.
Of course, there are no such threats (to
Western journalists as opposed to Ukrainian ones). I had frequent
discussions with (Western) journalists. It’s a completely different
level of professionalism. If they are taking an interview with you, they
will turn you inside out while they sit and simply nod their head. Yet,
at the same time those are people who work for publications and those
publications have owners, and the owners possibly have certain political
motivations or interests in specific types of information never making
it into print. That is the only way I see it.
GR: Anatoly do you see the situation in the next several months either for the worst or for the better?
AS: Undoubtedly, the situation will only deteriorate.
I can see this as a reverse evolution.
I’m observing this pattern ever since the beginning of the Maidan
Revolution. I can see how afraid my colleagues are. Many of them had
contacted me, journalists that still work for TV channels. And they keep
on telling me that they can’t release truthful information even if they
want too.
We can take Channel 112 for example. As
soon as they’ve attempted to publish information just a little bit
outside of the bounds of official line, they’ve immediately received a
warning. If they get another warning, the State regulator will
immediately have their licence pulled. “INTER” TV channel, used to be
different as well. They are under pressure too.
Newspaper “Vesti” had their offices
burned and no one was found responsible! As for the newspapers that they
distribute, some people in ski masks show up and steal those. It
happens all the time! That’s why I do not see the situation improving.
I’m certain the situation will continue to deteriorate as long as West
is turning the blind eye.
West should not be blind to what is
happening! These are not some form of childish horse play. Those are
murders we dealing with now! People are really being thrown into jail.
Ruslan Kotsaba is sitting in jail and for what? For nothing but his
position, he had never called for anything illegal, he had simply voiced
his position, and now he is being accused of high treason! This is a
complete legal nihilism (disregard for law). Yet the only force that can
exert some influence over Ukraine is the Western society, and no one
else. No one else can influence the situation. That’s why I’m waiting
for the West to take a notice of what is going on!
Intermission
GR: Anatoly I also wanted to ask, you
had mentioned earlier the pattern of intimidation and deaths that it
recalls the 1937 period. I’m wondering if there is anything else that
you are witnessing in this society today that recalls the events of
1937.
AS: No doubt. The situation is that even
people that have an opposite position are afraid to speak out. Because
of their own fear they attempt to hide in the crowd. When everyone in
the crowd starts shouting “Glory to the nation!” or “Death to the
enemies!” then you start to shout same thing as well, not because you
agree, but because you’re afraid.
We have seen this in 1937. We remember
what had happened in Nazi Germany, millions of people were persuading
themselves, pushing their own fear into subconsciousness, that they like
(approve) what was happening around them. They were sincerely happy
with the executions, or that tens, or hundreds or thousands of
dissidents were thrown into jail, like we see right now in Ukraine. They
believed… they’ve projected an impression that they believed that
someone was guilty of committing acts of terrorism.
Today in Ukraine as many as 20 to 30
terrorists are detained every day! I do not believe that those terrorist
acts are real. I do not believe that accused were attempting to blow up
a bridge or assault the members of the government, or make an attempt
on the life of the president Poroshenko. All of the above are carbon
copy of 1937.
“When everyone in the crowd starts shouting “Glory to the nation!” or “Death to the enemies!” then you start to shout same thing as well, not because you agree, but because you’re afraid.”
Plus, today in Ukraine it became very
popular to be an anonymous informant. People write anonymous
accusations, people are asked to write anonymous accusations. People
accuse their neighbours. In Mariupol after it was occupied by Azov
battalion, the security service had quite a harvest because neighbours
were writing about their neighbours. If someone didn’t like someone they
would just make an accusation that so and so had cooperated with
separatist or shared separtatist ideas, obviously such practices are
outside of law. Yet in Ukraine today it’s considered to be very
honourable to be an anonymous accuser. To inform, that’s another clear
analogy I see with 1937.
GR: Anatoly is there anything else that
you’d like to add that our listeners really need to know about, that
will help them understand the situation with journalism and suppression
of freedom of speech and freedom of the press in Ukraine that we haven’t
mentioned yet that you would like to share?
AS: I think I had said everything. As
for the situation with human rights, well I can be an example. I have to
change addresses every other day. I can’t use phones. I have to use
special programs that change IP address to access the internet, and for
what? I have never done anything illegal! If I did, believe me, Interpol
would have been already looking for me, and I would have been
extradited long time ago!
People are wanted for speaking the
truth. People have to hide and be afraid for their life. Not because
they suffer from paranoia, but because they see how their friends get
murdered on the streets of so called European state. That’s why I
believe that other examples are redundant. I can see on my own example
how far freedom of speech had advanced in Ukraine.
GR: Anatoly one last question for you if
you don’t mind. There was a website “Peacekeaper” I believe it was
called, and it was endorsed by Gerashenko. And it was posting
information about people who got murdered. And it was somehow used as a
crowd sourcing tool, could you talk a little more about that?
AS: Website “Mirotvorec” (Peacekeeper)
was set up a few months ago with the active participation of Advisor to
the Minister of Internal Affairs Gerashenko and with active
participation, as far as I understand, of Ukrainian security services
because all of their branches have their home pages hosted there as
advertisements.
The personal information had started to
appear on it soon after including phone numbers, home addresses,
including names of children of people who someone thought were
terrorists. They were accused of being terrorists. In fact, I had been
contacted by people who had their information posted on the website and
it turned out to be either people who practise sport shooting, who live
in Russia and had never left Russian territory.
One person had contacted me from Siberia
who had never left his village. He was also listed on the website as
Russian terrorist. Then they’ve started to post information of people
who’s opinions they didn’t like. Oles Buzina had his information listed
there. They had listed his home address, which I believe had really
helped his killers, and he was murdered the very next day. The former
Member of Parliament from Regions Party had his information posted there
and he was also murdered the next day.
After Buzina was murdered, my
information was posted as well, but they didn’t know my address so
they’ve listed me as homeless. So I’ve decided to strike back! I’ve
decided to pay them with the same coin, so I’ve published in my video
blog personal information of the creator of the website.
The very next day the pressure on me had
increased. I was accused of financing terrorism, but I’ve continued to
fight against that website. I’ve contacted human rights organizations.
I’ve received no reply. However, I suppose someone in the West had
noticed it, because Ukrainian Ombudsman had reacted and she released a
statement saying that this is illegal and people behind the website
should bear the responsibility. No one can be called a criminal without
court’s decision. The principle of the presumption of innocence can not
be suspended in one single country.
So the website has serious problems
right now and those government officials involved are trying to distance
themselves away from it. Yet some time ago it was actively promoted by
main Ukrainian mass medias.
GR: Anatoly, there was information about this girl posted there. Can you tell us more about that?
AS: Yes, yes, I had noticed that girl
too. They published her information, She was twelve years old and they
called her an enabler and supporter of terrorists, and published her
home address. The girl is twelve years old. I found her and I contacted
her. The girl turned out to be a very sick girl, a physically sick
child. So, they have started publishing the personal information of sick
children.
GR: Thank you very much, I’m done now.
“Spasibo!” Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us, and
thank you for your patience through this entire process and we’re
looking forward to getting this interview broadcast tomorrow, and it
will be posted to our website shortly after that. So, thank you very
much.
AS: Thank you very much! It would be a
pleasure for me to give you any kind of commentaries you would like. And
I hope that the West will finally start paying attention. Thank you
very much.
End of interview.
LISTEN TO THE SHOW
Length (59:16)
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